Discussion Prompt

[artificialent]

Alright. Let's get talking.

I've never been great at starting conversations, but I do know it helps to have something to talk about. So for all those who want to chat, feel free to jump in! I may even end up posting something like this regularly, who knows.

What do you folks think about Tom Bombadil?
(What the elf-mongering fuck is Tom Bombadil?)

Comments

[guanin]

I have no idea what to make of him. Seriously, what is he?

[artificialent]

Right?
My current theory is basically old Irish fae/personification of Arda? Possibly an ancestor to Hobbits? (they have very similar attitudes toward life, and mannerisms, and are both to some degree weirdly resistant to the ring)

[xylophonicsynapse]

In a meta sense Tom feels like a character that JRR wrote for something else but loved so much that he just folded him into the story.

Less meta, I feel like I read somewhere that he's really old, like older than elves and closer to the Maiar in terms of age? He came from a time before Sauron created the ring so it has no power over him.

[artabria]

He's really old.

"Eldest, that's what I am... Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn... he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless – before the Dark Lord came from Outside."

Because of that quote, there are theories that he was around even before Melkor arrived, so he was around before any of the Ainur arrived to Arda.

[artificialent]

So he showed up somewhere between the Ainulindale and the Ainur actually getting into the universe. Huh.

I don't know that just being old is enough to counter the Ring, I mean Saruman is just as old as Sauron and could still at least be corrupted by debatably-lesser artifacts like the palantiri. Heck, Elrond is older than the Ring, and Galadriel, and they were just as afraid of it as everyone else. Right?

[artabria]

I won't say Saruman got corrupted by the Palantíri. He basically ended up talking a lot with Sauron (and he really wanted the One Ring). Balrogs are a similar case: same race as Saruman and Gandalf, decided to follow Melkor.

One theory why it won't affect Bombadil is he having want of nothing. Hobbits are very peaceful creatures that don't really seek power and prefer to stay apart from the rest of the world.

I don't have the book on hand right now, so I'm paraphrasing here, but during the Council of Elrond it is mentioned that he isn't really aware or cares about what happens outside his forest, or even if he understands how serious it is. I think the Ring not having effect on him has something with the "no wants or seeking power" thing.

What he is, however, is a question for the ages. Ainur? Perhaps, the Silmarillion was never finished, so we don't know if Tolkien would have added him to it at some point.

[artificialent]

Huh, I didn't remember that bit about the Council of Elrond. But hey, at least Tom Bombadil is more integrated into the universe than Tinfang Warble!
I was finally reading Beren and Luthien and one part of it mentioned something along the lines of "ah yes, the two greatest bards, [some elf, possibly Maglor] and Tinfang Warble!" (don't have the book on me right now, sorry) and it just jarred me right out the whole thing. I had to like. Pause to look him up and everything, because I just *could not* stop going "who the fuck is this?". Especially since that is not a name in the style of literally anything else in Arda.

[artabria]

Had to look who Tinfang was. Turns out it's one of those cases of "Tolkien never really finished the Silmarillion", XD

If you want to search the bit about Tom Bombadil in the Council of Elrond, it's toward the end of the chapter "The Ring goes South", after everyone has told their stories. I have the book in front of me right now and, wow, I have to do a re-reading of these books. My edition is in Spanish, so it probablt won't be what's in your book, but:

"I think in the end, if everything else is conquered, Bombadil will also fall, the Last, as he was the First, and then the night shall come."

That's a quote from Glorfindel. I'm guessing "the First" is perhaps a reference to his arrival before any other Ainur?

Elrond calls him Iarwain Ben-adar, the Eldest and Fatherless. Fatherless could be seen as he being an Ainur, but Eldest? Melkor was supposed to be the eldest Ainur, if I remember correctly. Someone needs to bring back Tolkien from the dead and make him finish the Silmarillion, @_@

[artificialent]

I know, right? *sigh*
I suppose it is rather nice having such a broad range to interpret stuff, though

[texelations]

Whatever he is, he's his own man.

[artificialent]

Yep. There was this one comic I saw on Tumblr a while ago, but it's too much of an unsearchable void for me to want to try and track it down again, but this comic expressed it so well.
Just... Tom Bombadil. The weird old immortal in the woods. Singing jolly songs while the world comes crashing down around him, a narrative that sounds awfully familiar now that I think about it.

[bramblepatch]

I kind of feel like the moment I realized I was no longer disappointed that the movies left him out was the moment I truly became an adult.

I do like the idea that he's connected to hobbits/in some way involved in the creation of hobbits, just because no one seems to know where either come from.

[artificialent]

Right? It does make sense he's not in the movies, though. I admit, it would be very... confusing. Tom Bombadil is already confusing, of course, but in this case he would just kinda stick out like a sore thumb more than he always does.

[bramblepatch]

He's such a tonal departure from the rest of the story that I almost have to think he's doing it on purpose.

Given his association with old, active woodlands, I'd be very interested in what the ents' take on him is. Are they even aware of him, or does he fall into the same blindspot as the hobbits? Does he know what's become of the entwives?